Simmental Angus Cattle - I need advice!

[Brady Smith]

We need to buy a couple of bulls this winter before our breeding season (June). We have all Angus-cross cows and have been using Angus bulls. I think we are getting pretty in-line angus and want to move in a different direction. I have been looking pretty hard at Simmental, Simmental composite, Gelbvieh, and Balancer bulls. Looking for feedback on success/horror stories.

We used to have a lot of Simmental influence in our herd and had trouble with rat tail calves.....we haven't had a rat tail for years. If I use a Simmi bull on our angus cross cows.....what is the probability of rat tails??

Thanks for the help.

[Dammann Farms]

Well, I think that you are looking in the wrong direction, you need to look at Charolais!! YOu won't get too many rat tails, besides they feed the same anyway!! Okay, you know that I had to say that!! If you don't like the Char's, then we have had great luck with a red Gelbvieh!

[Brady Smith]

Yeah yeah yeah.....I know......looking in the wrong direction. I REALLY want to look to Gelbveih, but it is slim pickings for quality Gelbveih within a decent driving geography. We have time, but I don't like buying bulls after everybody is picked over. Thanks for the discussion. Hope all is well on the home front!

[David and Bridgette Midkiff]

Hi Brady, I have a mostly Sim Angus herd started. I have a Registered Angus bull, 6 registered Simmental cows, and 20 commerical Angus cows. I am keeping the heifer calves out of Simmental cows for replacements. I am replacing the rest of my Angus cows as they get too old. I am very happy with my Sim Angus cows. They are excellent mothers and raise good calves that show good hybrid vigor. For the commerical producer they are very good. I had a Gelbvieh cow and was not really impressed with her as a mother. As for Charolais, one of the neighbors raises registered Charolais and he has to PULL lots of calves. I don't have to do that very often with my Angus, Simmental and Sim Angus crosses. I feed alfalfa hay and mixed grass hay on alternating days with free choice mineral and salt, but no grain of any sort. My cows are coming through this winter very well with no problems.

[Linda Hastings]

I just got a Simmental cow and 4 month old calf. They are not as fat as they should be. I will keep the cow and eventually breed the calf and cow to an Angus. How much alfalfa hay should I feed daily and how much grass hay. We have timothy mix. To get them fatter for the winter, should I suppl. with grain? Thanks so much for your answer. Linda

[Brady Smith]

There are a variety of factors when determining how much hay to feed your cows. Assessing their body condition will help determine if your cow needs to put weight on if she needs to be fed to maintain her current condition. During the winter with a calf on side, your cow is using more energy and could use a grain supplement. Typically, during winter around here, a cow can eat between 15-30 lbs of hay per day while being supplemented with 1-2 pounds of corn and 12-15 lbs of modified DDG.

[Linda Hastings]

What is modified DDG

[Angela Minary]

Personally i believe that you may be going in the wrong direction with the simmentals. Considering they consume alot more feed and are alot harder keepers than angus cattle, i guess it all depends on your resources avaviable and how much you want to spend on feed and feeding these cattle. I would possbily suggest maybe finding angus bulls that aren't related to the ones you have and get some different breeding in there that way.

[Brad]

I also run an angus based herd and in the last two calving seasons have been very pleased with the gelbvieh cross calves I have got. When it comes to looking for gelbvieh bulls you need to look at Judd Ranch Bulls. They are out of Pomona, Kansas and their website is http://www.juddranchinc.com/ you will have a hard time finding better bulls. The gelbvieh bull will add meat on the angus and cure the "No-Ass-Itus" syndrome angus sometimes has. Balancer bulls are also a good option but you will have to do more looking for a good breeder there. I know of one locally that we deal with for balancer bulls but it all depends on how far you are willing to drive I guess. Another option for a excellent cross is a Hereford bull.... now before you quit reading I will tell you this lol. Our butcher (local guy, not commercial) compared one of my sister's angus x hereford calves to one of my angus x gelbvieh calves and to my surprise the angus x hereford was a much better finished product as far as quality of beef. The calves were close to the same age and the angus x gelbvieh weighed more than the angus x hereford. They are both good options but the butcher doesn't lie. If you are looking for a good hereford breeder Falling Timber Farms at Marthasville, Missouri and their website is http://www.fallingtimberfarm.com/ and the same goes for these folks.... you will have a hard time finding better bulls. As a side note we have not ever had to pull a calf from either herd. That is my two cents.... hope it helps.

[Adam]

Seems like everyone has beef w/ herefords, haha. I got my start in raising and showing cattle with herefords, still keep a few in my mostly purebred angus herd, and plan to start switching back into more herefords. They are docile, very reproductive, and produce quality beef. In fact the most compliments that I get from customers comes from those that have had my purebred hereford beef!

[Randi]

It doesn't matter what breed you go with there are plusses and minuses to every one. IMO no breed does it all, and no breed is perfect, they also all have their problems, and areas that can be complimented by another breed. The breeds you are looking at are all good crosses in a mostly Angus herd.

As far as rat-tails, it is linked to the diluter gene when crossed with the black gene. I am not exactly certain how it works. Both Simmental AND Gelbveih (as well as Charolais) can give you rat-tailed calves when crossed with Black Angus. You just have to understand the genetics to avoid it. First off if you were to go with a white Charolais, sooner or later you are very likely to run into some rat-tails, after all the Char breed is generally homo for the diluter gene. If you were to go with Simmental or Gelbveih, you just need to stay away from the lighter colored reds or tans. Use a DARK red or black animal and you should not end up with any rat-tails.

In the Simmental and Gelbveih breeds, the diluter gene works like this(it is NOT the same gene as the Charolais diluter)

An animal Homozygous(two copies) for the dilute gene will be some shade of tan in the case of a red animal, or grey in the case of a black animal, usually they will be quite pale tan or grey(more silvery).

An animal Heterozygous(one copy) for the dilute gene will usually be darker tan or light red or usually a dark grey(more smokey)

An animal that is NOT carrying the dilute gene will be some shade of red, and this can VARY from light red to very dark red OR they will be black.

So, as I said above if you used a darker red bull or a black bull, you should be fine.

[PHILIP RODWELL]

I AM A UK FARMER AND HAVE NEVER HEARD OF RAT TAIL CALVES. IS IT A BIG PROBLEM? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE EFFECT ON BEEF PRODUCTION? (JUST CURIOUS)

[Brady Smith]

Philip;

It is not near the problem it used to be simply because of the genetics of cattle have bred away from it. From what I know, rat tails don't hang any different carcus than all black or other x-bred animal, but at the sale barn they always take a hit.

Any other questions holler! I am sure others have better/more specific feedback than I do.

PHILIP RODWELL said:

I AM A UK FARMER AND HAVE NEVER HEARD OF RAT TAIL CALVES. IS IT A BIG PROBLEM? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE EFFECT ON BEEF PRODUCTION? (JUST CURIOUS)