Liquid or Dry?

[James Kelly]

Ok about to reoutfit my John Deere 7000 planter to put out some starting fertilizer, I have sandy loam soils, so Im concern with leching and leaning towards dry... What do you think?

[Anthony Adams]

I think dry would be a great idea, are you strip tilling or anything ahead of the planter to put more nutrients in place or planning on a later side dress. Even in milo you'd be minimal at best with dry going down efficiently with a planter...unless your pulling some kind of dry cart. But for a pre plant, I think it'd work...have actually considered this on our farm.

Plus in this area Dry is about 66% to 75% cheaper then liquid currently.

 

 

[James Kelly]

I was thinking of outfitting my planter with a dry fertilizer box, with dics application located 2inches to the side and 2inches under the seed placement.  I read in University studies that 2X2 method has had the best return. Strip Tilling or some type fertilizer banding machine would be great, but I am trying to strictly no-till, and I figured a simple dry fertilizer component added to my planter will be the cheapest. 

I plan on side dressing later with liquid, but my cation exchange on my soil tests are relativly low, usually in the 2.5-4.0 range, so I am planning on spoon feeding the corn crop, Thats why, I am interested in getting some sort of fertilizer early in the ground. 

But you don't think that the dry with the planter will be effiecient? In what way? Uniform Rate? Haven't grown Corn before.

 

 

[Anthony Adams]

If your doing it with a dry box that can hold quite a bit then you'll be alright. We are considering using the insecticide boxes already on the planter and putting down a low rate of Map as we're planting, probably dropping right behind the seed ahead of the press wheels. The reason I claimed inefficiency is that in that kind of setup we'd be filling up every 40 acres or so. With a bigger box, one might be able to efficiently do it. We'll strip till ahead though also.

 

What sort of dry are you putting down, I don't know about phosphorus and other fertilizers, but Agrium/CPS has ESN, which is encapsulated Nitrogen that breaks down over the life cycle of the crop...essentially spoon feeding as your talking. If you could put enough of that down at planting, it could save you another pass across the field.

[James Kelly]

ooo yes I have thought about useing the insecticide boxes too, However afraid of seedling damage by putting it directly with the seed or is that only to worry about liquid?

 

I am not sure which fertilizer product to go with, Who is the provider or Agrium?

[Anthony Adams]

A full crop rate of fertilizer would be too much right beside the seed, with liquid for sure. I'm not sure on dry, we put down a whole supply of nitrogen and phos beside wheat and it doesn't hurt it..actually helps it, I don't know what effect it might have on corn.

 

Crop Production Services is the company name out here, my Dad is a salesman for them. Agrium is the parent company. I know CPS is a nationwide company, I know their in Florida, North Carolina as well as the entire plains but not sure about where you are. Farmland (Co-ops) are getting an encapsulated product now too, a little less quality but the encap products are branching out anyway.

 

Heres the link to the ESN website:  http://www.smartnitrogen.com/default.aspx

[James Kelly]

ooo ok yes, we deal with Crop Production so ESN is the Product ok... i'll look at it.

[Gary Herndon]

I also plant sandy loam ground and use dry fertilizer.  My CEC's are pretty low, which means the fertiizer doesn't stay put.  I soil test yearly, so I know what my soils need.  One main advantage I see with the dry is that I can get a blend the meets the soil test.  I do not have that option with liquid.  I will put about 30-40% of my N down at planting (plus my P and maybe part of my K) and sidedress the rest.  One year I did borrow a 7000 planter with liquid and had great results, but it was a year with plenty of rain so it's hard for me to compare dry vs. liquid.  The main advantages I saw with liquid were the refill time and ease...dry requires a little more effort.  Most everyone else around me uses liquid for those reasons.

[James Kelly]

Yea your in the same boat as I am with the CEC, I think that I read somewhere that liquid N is more likely to leach or be more mobile than Dry; do you think so?

[Gary Herndon]

I do think that the liquid would be more likely to leach or at least leach more quickly.  Here's my logic:  Leaching is the process of a substance (whether it be fertilizer or chemical) moving through the soil.  Moisture (rain) is what pushes it through.  The dry fertilizer would have to "melt" into a liquid form prior to being able to leach.  Therefore it would stay in the soil longer than the fertilizer already in the liquid form. 

[James Kelly]

I gotcha, I kinda of thought of it that way myself. I know alot of guys around me broadcast dry in the corn, around June, before it is just too tall to get into, I thought that the idea was if rain comes along the fertilizer will leach into the soil to the corn later in the season. Though I would be hesitant to count on rain and for the fertilizer to go down deep enough to the active roots of the plant.  Thats why I like the idea of planting dry fertilizer in the ground with the seed so the plant will slowly obtain nitrogen and know that the moisture of the ground will help break it down.

[Gary Herndon]

In my first post I mentioned that I put 30-40% of my N down at planting.  I get the guy at my local farm supply to apply the rest of my N anywhere from 16" and up, depending on time and moisture.  Since he has a liquid machine, that's what I get.  But it does really rely on getting some rain to wash it in.  2010 was not a good year with that gamble...my corn was looking great, and I told the guy to put the N to it.  Then it got dry.  2 weeks without rain.  That cut my yield way down.  Had I put all my N down at planting or got it applied a week before, things could have been totally different.  Who knows.  I have always done a split application, and that's what I will continue to do.  With your CEC's I think that is probably your best route as well.   I am no agronomist, though.  Looking at what works for others and being willing to try some new things may your best bet.  That's what I am working towards.  50 year old practices may be "tried and true" but sometimes you have to take some chances.  On another note, in your corn seed selection, how many days to maturity are your hybrids?

[pooboynotiller]

I know NOTHING about corn and I can prove it.... But where we are here in western oklahoma our lack of rainfall, and hot temperatures our rate of denitrification from dry is enormous. In my opinion of course.  I know all the old timers talk about it unless it's where it's worked in immediately.  Therefore I'm partial to liquid.  I am also set up for it, and I use to use the dry on my drill it was a headache.  Now I occasionally break a tube, but virtually no problems at all.